Talk:Dragon Language/Archive 1
If anyone wants to add words to the list, note that when I created the list of words I didn't manually write all the image links in the right order, I wrote a script to do it for me. It's available at http://jsfiddle.net/jkxQz/ Q and Y Strun Bah Qo and Yol Toor Krein anyone? UESP is much more cleaner than this wiki, honestly. The Q and Y letters have already been released, somebody update it for Ysmir's sake. - Crusader (Crusader's Mailbag) 03:57, November 5, 2011 (UTC) Past tense? Is it time to switch all these pages from past tense (would it be post tense?) Example: "When skyrim comes out" instead it will say "Since Skyrim has been released" or something like that? It's a bit annoying. Excuse any poor grammar. Dragonstones and Dragon Walls Has anyone seen any transcriptions/translations of the Dragonstones and the Dragon Walls on the web anywhere? I've been taking screen shots and working through them on my own, but I haven't seen that they've been posted. Also, I haven't received my copy of the strategy guide yet, so I have no idea if this information is in the book. Would anyone object to my creating a separate page or pages to post this information? Also, I would be more than happy to volunteer to clean up the existing alphabet and lexicon. I have the draconic alphabet font on my computer as well, so can create a table with the runes/transcription/translation if there is interest. 06:39, November 14, 2011 (UTC)silverdragon686 I'm working on at least getting it them to the romanization point (from the written to the english character equivilent) and translating the words as best I can, then adding them to the location pages for them.VolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:34, December 11, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:34, December 11, 2011 (UTC) Missing Translation I'm wondeting if anyone has found a translation for the characters that are currently (incorrectly) scribed as "oo" - such as "Toor", the second word in Fire Breath. The T & R are correct translated. However, there is no translation for the middle character it would appear, and "Toor" is definitely not correct. Whatever the middle character is, it's clearly not "oo". I've listened to the shout and tried things that make sense (Tur, Tour, Tuur, Tuer, Tohr, Tuhr), but I've come up empty. That said, I often find that what the character shouts doesn't actually sound anything like the translation of the Dragon Script into English Script (the third word is 'Shul', and what he shouts for a full Fire Breath sure doesn't sound like "Yul Toor Shul"). The character in question is the following: http://brutix.com/img/xlrm/letter2-inferno.png 19:24, November 14, 2011 (UTC) Answer: The symbol or rune to which you are referring is actually "oo"; it's one of the two-letter symbols that have appeared after the game release. It's possible that the runes do not sound like their English counterparts either because the in-game character is speaking with an accent (like several of the NPCs) or because your personal regional dialect may pronounce them differently. This is particularly the case with vowels and considering your 6 alternatives from above, is mostly likely the reason. For example: American Dialects. Or, if you want to have some fun: American Accent Quiz and Where is the Speaker from? Silverdragon686 (talk) 05:05, November 18, 2011 (UTC) References and Resources Would someone be willing to proofread the new content and make any necessary notes for references and/or resources? I tried my best, but I'll admit I probably didn't catch everything in my last edit. Plus, a second pair of eyes always helps... Phonetic transcription I think this page could benifit from more accurate phonological transcriptions. Maybe some IPA symbols? Answer: Is there a reason you would suggest phonetic transcriptions? There shouldn't be a need, since the runes stand for English letters (or combinations) and therefore have the same sounds as the English letters. The words given on the list are transcribed from the runes then translated into English. The word list comes directly from the strategy guide. Adding another set of unnecessary symbols (such as IPA) may clutter the page and make the lexicon/dictionary less user-friendly. Addition: Refer to answer in post above. I would also submit that not only do most people not know how to read IPA transcriptions, but different pronounciations (due to accents/dialects) mean the transcriptions would not be 100% accurate for every individual. Unless you mean to transcribe the character's dialect? Silverdragon686 (talk) 04:42, November 18, 2011 (UTC)(forgot to log in) Answer: You say "English sounds", problem with that is that english has quite a lot of sounds per letter that differ on a word by word basis. A comparasion to a british or american accent, or better, a video with the pronounciations presented would be nice to know the difference of i/ii, a/aa, ei/ey, ... and what 'x' refers to. Addition: I'm a linguist grad student, and I really don't know how to pronounce most of the vowels. I don't think having a little IPA character would be too confounding... December 2, 2011 (Guest who haven't registered a user on this wiki) Dragon language game sourced TTF Ok, new here. Seeing this article I couldn't help but do the following: #Extract 'fonts_en.swf' from 'Skryim - Interface.bsa' (PC Steam version) #Use Action Script Viewer to open 'fonts_en.swf' #File > Extract Resources > Save All Fonts as TTF #Attain 'Dragon_script.ttf' font {C At this point I loaded it up in FontCreator and tested the typing. Turns out 35 Dragonic symbols are there, some of which are unknown! It uses 0-9 to store the double character symbols. These symbols are as follows: 0 = unknown ; 1 = 'aa' ; 2 = 'ei' ; 3 = 'ii' ; 4 = 'ah' ; 5 = 'uu' ; 6 = unknown ; 7 = unknown ; 8 = 'oo' ; 9 = 'ey'; Note that in Win7, it shows Arial symbols for some of the lowercase, but normally there is no lowercase, so typing with caps lock on will remedy this problem. TL;DR: You can get the complete alphabet from the game itself. Making the symbols 100% cannon, and there is a slight glitch under Win7. Download Mediafire {C EDIT: The C is actually 'ey'. :( TheSuperNerd (talk) 09:47, November 21, 2011 (UTC) Add: This is awesome, thanks for finding! If someone hasn't beaten me to it later today, I'll update the alphabet section. Note on the number keys (aka the double characters): 0 is still an unknown, and could have been discarded from the game. According to the guide, there are only 34 characters and the lexicon is built from those. 1="aa", 2="ei", 3="ii", 4="ah", 5="uu", 6="ur", 7="ir", 8="oo", 9="ey" and the C key is a repeat of the "ey" symbol (as stated) Silverdragon686 (talk) 19:31, November 21, 2011 (UTC) GE suffix I noticed that in the Bleak Falls Barrows Dragonstone's translation the word "DROGGE" is translated as DROG- Lord. I wonder what GE is, i personally think that is is a S suffix as "Lord's'" fit. A Wikia Contributer, at an unknown time. Add: maybe, but I think it'd be better to wait till we have something to cross-reference it too (like another word with a -GE suffix). Hopefully some DLC or word-from-on-high will clear things up. And don't forget to sign your talkings. TheSuperNerd (talk) 00:18, November 24, 2011 (UTC) It's just plural. To make plural you need to double the last letter and add "E" so you type "DROG", double the "G" so you get "DROGG" and then you add "E", "DROGGE", plural of "DROG" 19:58, March 22, 2013 (UTC) Alphabetical order Should the alphabetical order of the lexicon be reversed? I'm pretty sure not everyone is a fluent speaker of Dragonish. If the English side were in alphabetical order, we could find words easier. Thesaurus Rex (talk) 16:09, November 28, 2011 (UTC) It might be useful to just have both versions-- I only went to this page because I kept on seeing Krosis everywhere and wanted to know wth it meant. Would have been difficult if it had been reversed. 21:25, November 30, 2011 (UTC)Slits Transcription I want to know how to actually transcript these things. For instance, why does Yol mean fire? Why does "x" word mean "x" word in english? If I knew these things, then I could probably make any word I needed. Answer: There is no particular reason for yol to mean fire in English, in the same way that there is no reason for fuego (Spanish for fire) to mean the same. This is a new language they have created, not just a code. There do, however, seem to be words that are directly borrowed from other languages. Hiligaynon looks like a promising source, since it contains a word used by dragons in the game that has yet to be translated, "balaan" meaning divine or virtuous, which coincides well with the context in which the word is used in dialogue in the game. (See Milmunir and Paarthurnax dialogues.) Wrayshine2 (talk) 01:30, December 15, 2011 (UTC) Hi all. This article merits it's own website and translator. I'm currently building out DragonLanguage.org, with the hopes of being done by the end of the week. (signiture needed) In the game, the dialogue with Paarthurnax seems to reveal a large number of previously unknown words, and I thought I would try and contribute what I found. Here are a few additional words (I'll add more as I go) that I've found in conversation with Paarthurnax and the meaning that their context seems to imply. *Tinvaak: conversation or perhaps socialisation. "You would not come all this way for tinvaak with an old dragon." He makes use of this word multiple times with the same implied meaning each time. *Volaan: An alternative form of "joor" perhaps? "Why do you come here, volaan?" Draugr use it as well. "Dir volaan!" presumably, Die mortal! *Sossedov: Dragonblood. "Sossedov los mul. The dragonblood is strong in you." *Balaan: virtuous, upright, true. "They are very protective of me. Balaan fahdon. friends." this word is also used by Milmunir "Balaan hokoron." when he is complementing the bravery and strength of the guards he is attacking. *Wuhlsetiid: Whirlwind of Time. A complex of "wuhl", whirlwind, and "tiid", time. A metaphor or name for the medium through which one moves when travelling through time. "Even we who ride the currents of Time cannot see past Time's end. Wuhlsetiid los tahrodiis. Whirlwind of Time is treacherous." *Kelle: The Elder Scrolls, a pluralisation of "Kel". "The Kelle, The Elder Scrolls as you call them..." *Wuth: my. "You will see them...wuth fadon...my friends." *Suleyk: Power. "This is the true meaning of "yol". Suleyk. Power." *Vonmindoraan: incomprehensible, or a thing which is incomprehensible. "A truly vonmindoraan...an incomprehensible idea to the immortal dov." This is improperly spelled in the article (or in the source for the article) at the moment. *Vomindok: I do not know, or it is unknown. "Vomindok. I do not know. Perhaps they erased the knowledge from time itself..." *Se: Of, implying the genetive case (as in "He is of good stock.") I concluded this from Sossedov, Wuhlsetiid, and Junnesejer, which are each complexes of Sos-se-dov (blood of dragons), Wuhl-se-tiid (whirldwind of time) and Jun-se-jer (kings of east). I would just add them to the article myself, but I would rather have some discussion go on as to whether the translations are justified. Wrayshine2 (talk) 01:30, December 15, 2011 (UTC) Wrayshine2: thank you for these! Do you have the entire conversation written down somewhere and not just the words you were pulling from them? I'm compliling all known words as well as th text they are used in as part of a full overhaul of the known words/mini-dictionary I think should be added and I have yet to go back through and get Paarthrunax's dialogue pulled for it. Since you've already done the work for those, perhaps we could compare notes? Also, I noticed the same thing with Se!VolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:45, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:45, December 16, 2011 (UTC) I didn't write anything down except the individual phrases I found the words in, and I got that from a video of the conversation someone posted on youtube (thankfully they had subtitles on). Wrayshine2 (talk) 18:37, December 23, 2011 (UTC) ipwnstar4hire has a video with subtitles of the first time you meet (episode 47 of his walktrough). I can try to record my own playthorugh and everytime he talks when I get to that point, if I remeber. But yes, paruntaax does seem to have quite a bit of words yet to be added.... Why is this text linking?Jabberwockxeno (talk) 03:35, December 25, 2011 (UTC) Trivia: Tafiir = Taffer : P Tafiir is "thief" in draconic? Bethesda devs, I see what you did thar... Taffer Garrett from the Thief series of games says hi! 17:27, December 12, 2011 (UTC) Known Words/Common Words and other general formatting Why is there a Known Words and Common Words section? Shouldn't they all be "known words"? Also the page layout doesn't make very much sense. There should probably be an entirely separate page for all known words and what they have been translated to; a mini-dictionary, I guess. With this page being the 'general information' page for the Language. Perhaps with the various word wall translations and other in game appearances on it along with the gameinformer preview (and that translation should be moved below the alphabet, imo). Thoughts?VolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:38, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGearVolsungScubaGear (talk) 00:38, December 16, 2011 (UTC) I think it makes sense to have the known and common words separated but the distinction should perhaps be called out and/or renamed to remove the confusion expressed here. The known words are all from the prophecy of the dragonborn for which 1st party translation has been provided by Bethesda and is beyond dispute. The common words are from the Skyrim Game Guide and various in game sources which are subject to error, as shown by the presence of disagreements. Irrelevant Label (talk) 18:34, December 31, 2011 (UTC) volaan (A taunt used by Draugr, "Dir Volaan!" might be Vol - Aan = "A Horror") - edited to remove "might be Vol-Aan" due to the fact that it would translate to "horror-a" if that were the combination. The translation is never reverse order from how it's written due to the language being an english substituted and following English grammatical structure (however pigden). It's more likely to be "Vo-Laan" ("un"-{something})VolsungScubaGear (talk) 02:17, December 16, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGear Pronounciation I don't know how to pronounce the words. I can definitely tell that you have a system, but I don't know what it is. Example: aa, ah, A, apple, awesome, ace, I don't know what letter goes with which pronounciation. Not to mention other vowels. 04:22, December 16, 2011 (UTC) It's a subtle difference, I'll grant you that, but it's there if you listen carefully enough: *ah = is an open-back unrounded vowel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_back_unrounded_vowel, i.e. ( tall, park, walk, etc. ) *aa = is an open-back rounded vowel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_back_rounded_vowel, which is probably more often associated with the letter o, i.e., ( gone, hot, dolly, etc. ) *A = much rarer than the other two vowels, it doesn't seem to have any specific rules for pronunciation, but might default to the schwa-form of the vowel http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mid-central_vowel, i.e., ( Tina, aloof, America, etc. ), although it is also pronounced as a short a [ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_front_unrounded_vowel] when pronounced Alduin's name, so... goodness even knows. I suppose it should be said this is all based on the Sovngarde track, and how the chorus (choir?) sings the lyrics. 02:58, April 25, 2012 (UTC) Volaan This has been edited several times by un-signed in users. The first time was with speculation on it being "horror a", the second on being "agony" and after I left a question on where the source for 'agony' was, it was changed to "quickly". Do we have any legitimate reference on this word and what it means? VolsungScubaGear (talk) 09:22, December 18, 2011 (UTC)VolsungScubaGear Mistranslation I'm pretty sure "Viik" and "Kron" are switched. Paarthnuax says "Viik nuz ni kron" in respect to dragonrend, and how it only cripples a dragon, not defeats it. It makes more sense for it to mean "Conquer, but not defeat", as opposed to how it is now. I am changing it as such, please revert it if there is evidence otherwise. Jabberwockxeno (talk) 03:32, December 25, 2011 (UTC) Thur Thur has been listed as overlord but during dialogue with Paarthurnax he translates it as tyranny. Where does the overlord version come from and does it overrule in game dialogue with Paarthurnax? Irrelevant Label (talk) 14:07, December 30, 2011 (UTC) I believe it comes from the Prima Official Guide (don't own it). Regardless, what is the difference between overlord and tyranny? An overlord and a tyrant are the same thing in terms of concept. Perhaps it could be Tyrant as a compromise, but the meaning of the word doesn't change; that's the nature of translation. Know what I mean? --PacifistFist (talk) 01:54, January 5, 2012 (UTC) I follow but it isn't entirely true. One is a title for a leader, the other a system of authority. That is like using monarchy and king as synonyms. They are closely related as frequently part of the same topic with one being the entity that practices and upholds the other, but for the difference to be irrelevant or a subject for a half-way compromise they would need to be synonyms. Irrelevant Label (talk) 15:13, January 6, 2012 (UTC) Hi there! I made an alphabetic translation on the dragon language from A-Z! Click this link to download it today! Dragon Language Translation Hope you guys enjoy it! :D In-Game Speech Missing Words Keep an eye out for missing words from in-game speech. Example, at some point Alduin says "Zu'u" which is translated to I am. I'm assuming that "Zu" means I. : Hi, I'm new on this wikia things, but Dragon Language is really interesting. Currently my Main Quest haven't gone too far (Just get passed Sahloknir to be exact). I'll try to check all Dragon Speech that I'll encounter from now on. (though this should take a while since I currently don't have much time to play it) - mrbenz February 03, 2012. (Sorry, haven't learn how to type down those signatures) :: Yeah, somewhere I wrote down a list of phrases in the hopes that some where missed. I even found one that I understood that wasnt listed in the Game Guide ;) ("Bex" is Dragonish for "open"/"Open gate"). :) Timeoin•Say G'Day• 06:24, February 3, 2012 (UTC) :: "uth" is missing. Odahviing uses this. He says "Zok brit uth!" then explains how your envy of dragons will only increase. So is he calling you a woman? Zok is "Most". Brit is "Beautiful". But I don't know what "uth" means. :: He also uses "uth" again when asking the player if s/he is ready to go. :: 20:54, February 5, 2012 (UTC) --- Pronunciation Problems --- Hey guys! Someone before mentioned they are having problems with the proper pronunciation of the Dragon Language. I was wondering if there were plans to address this? Perhaps use embedded audio files, like the way you guys did with the shouts. Likewise, if anyone knows any videos on youtube that would serve the same purpose, I'd greatly appreciate a link. Sky above, voice within. Berserkfhurer (talk) 10:26, March 21, 2012 (UTC) Become Etheral shout I know many of the words don't sound right when shouted by the Dragonborn, but the 3rd word of the Become Etheral shout is competly off. The first two are right: Fade: Fiem Sprit: Zii Bind: Gron? This page says that the word for Bind is Gron, but that is certainly not what the Dragonborn shouts in game. As a male Redgaurd, it sound something like "Cawl". If anybody can shed some light on this, I'd appreciate it. I'm just curious. WoolehSheep (talk) 15:13, March 28, 2012 (UTC) :I've noticed something similar with Unrelenting Force and Clear Skies. The first word of Unrelenting Force (Fus) sounds more like "Foos" when the Dragonborn uses it, and the first word of Clear Skies (Lok) sounds something like "huk". Sgt. S.S. (talk) 18:27, May 22, 2012 (UTC) ::I should probably have said that this is when you only use the first words of those two shouts on their own, i.e. just tapping R2 or RT or whatever. Sgt. S.S. (talk) 18:28, May 22, 2012 (UTC) Updated with new information Added a few more words, would like to see the list completed in the near future ^_^ DoubleODonut214 (talk) 00:09, July 23, 2012 (UTC) Errors on word list I think someone changed some words because Fin does not equal "you" and Hiu does not equal "Your". 03:54, September 20, 2012 (UTC) Thank you. It's been fixed. —TombRaiser [[User talk:TombRaiser|'SPEAK'!]] 04:10, September 20, 2012 (UTC) Dovah-Kiin Dovahkiin(A.K.A DragonBorn) Is made of two words in the dragon language, few times in the games the word Dovah is mentioned. If you havn't already guessed this means Dragon, and Kiin means born. 15:03, November 4, 2012 (UTC) Dovahkiin can also be interpreted as a three-word title, as is common among the Dragons. In that regard, it would be split as Dov-Ah-Kiin, which would mean Dragon-Hunt(er)-Born. This would refer to the general view people and Dragons have of the Dovahkiin, backed by the history of the Blades as dragonslayers. :It is possible that dovah itself is the union dov-ah, referring to dragons as "hunters from the dragon-race." 06:34, January 23, 2013 (UTC) :::Yay for necroing a comment ^^ This seems very likely to me, as it fits (how I've understood them) with how dragons see themselves. Given that talking and fighting is the same thing for dragons, they are fighters, hunters in their very being. If ''-ah'' would be an abstract suffix to derive a specimen of a kind, then you'd expect one elf to be called a fahliilah ''and one man ''julah. Instead, fahliilah ''and ''julah ''(and ''dovah, too) would seem to me to be compounds meaning as much as elf-hunter and man-hunter (not 'one who hunts elves', but as 'one who is elf and who is hunter', just like a singer-writer is 'one who sings and writes', not 'one who writes singers'). This also means that Dovahkiin is not a three-word-title, not a born dragonhunter, but really just Dragonborn. Compare Dovahzul, which does not mean 'the hunting language of dragons', but 'the language of dragons (which are hunters)'. Not Dov-ah-zul, but Dov-ah-zul. Not Dov-ah-kiin, but Dov-ah-kiin. Ojewejoriei (talk) 12:00, June 24, 2014 (UTC) Adding a Power section? I've been looking around and there's no real one page that describes in detail the powers of the Dragon language. There are minor sections about it on the Dragon Shouts and Dragon (Lore) page, but it's negligible. Would it be problematic were I to create a section on this page that goes into a little more detail on the power of the Dragon language to tap into magic, or is this unnecessary? Valiordruid (talk) 03:09, January 15, 2013 (UTC) :I think it'd be best on the Shouts page. 03:49, January 15, 2013 (UTC) Player-created Words. Here is a website that aims to fully expand the Dragon Language. At present, it has wel over 500 entries, both from in-game and player-made, based on what the lore provides. http://www.thuum.org Internal Reconstruction of Thu'um? Hello! I got in a conversation about Thu'um on Odahviing's Facebook page earlier this morning. I'm going to copypasta it here because someone may be able to make some use of it. Be aware that it's hardly at the pinnacle of historical linguistics, but it's at least interesting. Note that it took us a bit to really get going on the internal reconstruction (yeah, I know IR is a suckish method, but it's about all I have to go off of). Alrighty, here it is: *Sweyn78: Odahviing! Krosis fah faal Thu'um, nuz Swensevet los med wah tingvaak voth hiu, dovah. *Sweyn78: Los him swiitrol ni? *Sweyn78: ...Hiu tiingvaak faal Thu'um ni fah vahzah, dreh hiu? :. :. :. :Right, then! Translations. :. :. :Odahviing! :Apologies for my Voice, but I would like to speak with you, dragon. :. :Did someone steal your sweetroll? :. :...You don't really speak the Voice, do you? :. :. :I'm disappointed that dragonspeak ended up so pseudolingual. It's difficult to express much of anything in it, particularly due to the absence of many common words from the lexicon and its poorly defined grammar and phonology. They didn't even train their voiceactors in the tongue. *Odahviing: Morokei Onikaan Rotmulaagge *Sweyn78: Him Thu'um los mul, dovah. *Odahviing: Huzrah, Enook, Rot...Roh Tuz Wah Zeymah, Krif voth ahkrin! *Sweyn78: We should make this language more usable. Sort of derive an actually speakable conlang, with modern conveniences, like question words. We can borrow unhad words from, like, Sindarin or something. *Odahviing: it reminds me of my 2 years of taking German in high school awkward sentences because we only learned mostly key words *Sweyn78: I'm actually in German right now! (well, this semester) :It's a really cool sounding language, but it's a little on the unergonomic side (mixed endianness, 11 declensions, difficult consonant clusters, etc). I get what you mean, though; I've taken 4 foreign languages in schools, and they never started us with the basic words we needed to get by. *Sweyn78: Anyways, in Thu'um, I don't see a word for "that", "this", etc., but there ARE two words for "the": faal, fin. :The former is supposedly only used with things of great note, while the other is quite rare. :We know from historical linguistics that definite determiners often are derived from deictic words like "that". We also know that i is typically perceived as smaller than a, which although interesting, is barely workable. Although not ideal, we can reconstruct the following words: :this: fin :that: *fen :yonder: *fan :We'd need to check for conflicts in the already confirmed lexicon, of course. Anyways, we can assume, due to the sparing use of "fin", that the language is in the process of developing a definite determiner, but fin's use as "the" is still unstable. As far as "faal" goes, it's almost an honorific title, like "Dr." or "Sir". :UPDATE: *fen is not likely since "fen" already means "will". *fan and *fon are both still possible, though. I could see *fan as meaning "that" and *fon as meaning "yonder", or something like that. And, of course, there are the other vowels. I didn't check them. *Sweyn78: Also, "gein" appears to be a generic 3rd person and general person personal pronoun, as well as the number one. So, there's that. :We know in historical linguistics that languages typically develop first person and second person personal pronouns before third person personal pronouns (holy heck, that was a mouthfull!). Therefore, there has to be a first person personal pronoun in Thu'um. I haven't a clue as to what it is, yet, though. :Anyway, here's the current known list of pronouns: :Obj | ? | hiu | gein :Gen | ? | him | *geim :Also, there are almost certainly plural pronouns, since normal words inflect for number. We can't be certain, but until we have proof one way or another, we might as well form plural pronouns the same way that we form other plurals: :Obj | ? | ? | geinne :Gen | ? | *himme | *geimme :Since this doesn't work for "hiu", I'm going to guess that the pronouns use a different method to express the plural. However, "geinne" is known to be a word. Meh. Bethesda, your language is confusing! Well, since "geinne" is the correct plural, it may well be that this rule is indeed applied to pronouns other than "hiu", which must be irregular. Alternatively, it might use a different method of pluraling that other words, since it ends in a vowel. Perhaps Bethesda made a mistake, and it is actually properly written as "Hiw", which would of course allow "Hiwwe" as plural. :Obj | ? | hiw | gein :Gen | ? | him | *geim :Obj | ? | *hiwwe | geinne :Gen | ? | *himme | *geimme :. :I'm beginning to see how limited internal reconstruction is; I can figure out that Thu'um probably has words for certain things and the words that they're likely to look like, but I can't guarantee a particular form. Welp, that's all for now, folks. I hope we can make this language more workable; it's a shame it wasn't developed further than it was by Bethesda (not that it ever was much more than a poorly made relexiconization of English, but it does have potential in Skyrim-themed poetry). Oh, and sorry for the imperfect formatting of this comment. It's like 6AM and I haven't slept yet, and given that this isn't the actual article, I'm going to assume that it's okay. :) -Sweyn78 (talk) 11:13, January 30, 2013 (UTC) New grammar rule? So, I was looking around and realised that I need past tense. Then I found this word, "Wahlaan", which is the past tense of "Wahl" (build/create), and I thought, what if you add "-aan" to every verb. Then the suffix "-aan" would indicate past simple. And it worked out quite good, in my opinion. If people like it, someone could add it to the page. 19:01, February 24, 2013 (UTC) : "-aan" is used for present perfect tense, not simple past tense. If you examine other Word Wall translations, you'll see that verbs don't change form in simple past tense. "Wahlaan" is better translated as "has built", rather than "built". : For example, "Nafni wahlaan qethsegol bormahii vahrukt" is best translated to mean "Nafni has raised this stone in the memory of his father". Likewise, "Alduin mahlaan!" means "Alduin has fallen!", not "Alduin fell!" Possesive words? I want to know how to say the possesive words (i.e. My, yours, his, theirs, ours) but I noticed there are no translations for those words. Do they simply not exist? Are there alternate ways of expressing possesion? I'm trying to learn a third language here, but I can't if there's no possesive words! Help! Ziikrepaaz (talk) 18:22, April 6, 2013 (UTC) : In case you're still looking for them, most if not all of them are listed at http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Dragon_Language (use CTRL+F). LoL4Ever (talk) 15:45, June 12, 2013 (UTC) Pronunciation key wrong! The pronunciation key given is absolutely awful. I'm not sure if the author of this page ever even played Skyrim, because so many of the pronunciations are just so wrong. The only thing he got right was "oo", and he managed to completely leave off "uu". Here's a CORRECT pronunciation key. Format Key: letter combination: /pronunciation key (Oxford Symbols)/ - Dovahzul example (Source) - English example aa: /ɔ/ - L'aa's ("Aura Whisper" shout "Laas Yah Nir") - Paw ah: /ɑ/ - D'ah' ("Unrelenting Force" Shout "Fus Ro Dah") - M'a' ei: /ʌɪ/ - F'ei'm ("Become Ethereal" Shout "Feim Zii Gron") - M'y' ey: /eɪ/ - M'ey' ("Throw Voice" Shout "Zul Mey Gut") - D'ay' ii: /i/ - D'ii'n ("Frost Breath" Shout "Fo Krah Diin") - S'ee' ir: /ɪə/ - M'ir' ("Animal Allegiance" Shout "Raan Mir Tah") - N'ear' oo: /u/ - T'oo'r ("Fire Breath" Shout "Yol Toor Shul") - Cl'ue' ur: /ə/ - Th'ur'* (Paarthurnax) - H'er' uu**: /u/ - Th'u'u'm (Dovahzul for "Dragon Shout") - Cl'ue' * While technically "Thur" is part of the name of the dragon "Paarthurnax", the same pronunciation rules apply as with words of power. Besides this, Paarthurnax explains to the Dragonborn that the name of each dragon is actually a shout. Paarthurnax's name is also the shout "Paar Thur Nax" which translates to "Ambition Overlord Cruelty". As such "Thur", or "Overlord", is a viable example word. **Throughout the entire Dragon language, there is only one canon word that conains "uu" without the apostraphe. However, the word, "Gravuun" meaning "Autumn", only shows up on the word wall for "Mir", and as such is never pronounced. On the word wall containing "Zul Mey Gut" (all on one word wall), the word Thu'um is written, using the dragon script character for "uu", implying that it can, in fact, be pronounced the same way. While occasionally it is pronounced /θʊˈum/, as two syllables breaking at the apostraphe, it has also been pronounced /θum/, implying that "uu" is pronounced /u/. Compounds versus genitives The second paragraph of the Grammar section messes up a bit, making no difference between gentives and compounds and incorrectly claiming compounds are left headed. Both English and Dragon language are actually right headed when it comes to compounds. The word on the right is the head, the most prominent word, and the word on the left modifies it, often by making a subselection. For instance, in the compound solar flare it is actually flare ''which is the head and ''solar ''which specifies the type of flare, namely solar. Same goes for ''night sun and vulonkrein: sun and krein are the respective heads, being modified by night and vulon. The words refer to a sun, subtype night sun (i.e. moon). "But what about Junnesejer (kings of the east) and Qethsegol (bone of the earth)? Junne (kings) is left of jer (east) and is clearly the head, and the same goes for Qethsegol." Indeed it is, but Junnesejer and Qethsegol are not compounds. They are genitive constructions (construction of possession in a broad way), evident from the little word (se) meaning 'of', which English has too: Kings of the east. In genitive constructions both English and Dragon language are left headed indeed. Would these be compounds, we'd get Jerjunne (east kings) and Golqeth (earth bone). The other way around, in stead of the compounds vulonkrein or night sun one could also say the genitive constructions kreinsevulon or sun of the night. The Dragon language just doesn't happen to have spaces in their genitive constructions (which is very rare in languages of the world when there is a word such as se ('of') involved, but hey, Dragon language is neither from this world nor human). This mess needs cleaning up by someone who knows how to edit properly. Cheers, Ojewejoriei (talk) 10:42, June 24, 2014 (UTC) Major Flaw?? Has anyone else noticed that reference 9 is "Dialogue with Borri"?? Excluding Arngeir, all the Greybeards ever say is "Dovahkiin...", so how does that work?? Bluesonic1 (talk) 12:53, December 12, 2014 (UTC) :It's Borri that speaks the word "Bex" to open the gates. So, the reference is correct. AIdmeri (talk) 18:27, December 12, 2014 (UTC) Query What's "niikriinne"? Alduin uses it in the cutscene during Alduin's Bane. The sentence is "Faal Kel? Niikriinne..." just before he is banished. "Faal Kel" is "The Scroll", but "niikriinne" doesn't seem to translate to anything sensible. If someone knows what it is, shouldn't it be added to the list of words? 04:00, March 6, 2016 (UTC) perhaps it should be called Dracish? or maybe Draconic? idk 'Dragonish' and 'Dragon Language' seem really awkward to me. 03:19, March 19, 2016 (UTC)